Soredemo Machi wa Mawatteiru is definitely a Shaft anime, but while I think the typical “Shaftisms”, their stylistic flair, are definitely reined in this time around, Fin thinks it’s the same as ever. Regardless, like their other comedies (SZS, Maria+Holic, etc.), you either laugh or you don’t.
– Is there a plot? Does the premise even matter? Arashiyama Hotori is a conventional anime girl who works at an unconventional maid cafe. Oddball events occur aaaaand… that’s about it, really.
– Nyoro~n and I laughed once or twice (esp. the die bit), but the rest fell flat for me personally. Fin thinks it’s a bad Shaft anime, but still a good anime series nevertheless — whatever that means.
– Likewise, she liked the ED but I didn’t, though we both agreed the OP’s annoying.
– I don’t generally give a damn one way or another when it comes to the voice acting, but Hotori definitely stands out. I think it’s grating.
d/d(moe) of Shaft is KyoAni.
– Like most Shaft creations, there are numerous references to other anime littered about. Maybe real anime fans care about that sort of thing.
– The animation’s okay, but can also be summed up in one picture:
I think I’ll pass on this one. It’s totally lukewarm to me.
“Like most Shaft creations, there are numerous references to other anime littered about. Maybe real anime fans care about that sort of thing.”
Everyone will care if it is funny, which most of the time it’s not because it feels like a “*wink wink* we are self aware and here’s a otaku reference for all you fans, please laugh at it because that’s suppose to be funny” kinda thing. It just seems like filling the up the time with no purpose. There are no jabs, no messages, no satire and nothing really behind it than making otaku happy because they found some references and thought that the show is smart or something because the show is self aware.
This type of reference will only work for me if they feature things like Dragonball , Street Fighter or Fist of the North Star because they are integral part of the fandom and form such a funny contrast because they are ridiculous by themselves even without any jabs or satire.
I kinda dislike all Shaft comedy as well and don’t think they are really that witty or smart as others make it up to be. Firstly, it is due to all the references that serves no purpose and secondly, I am always find myself having the sentiment of “ya, ya I get it , lets move along” rather than this shit is funny.
I will rather watch some sick offensive juvenile penis joke than I don’t know, some guy got stuck under the bridge or something with similar jokes (like kappa cosplayer acting totally weird) that were done better in stuff like Sexy Commando and Cromartie from almost ten years ago.
I know you all dig most(?) of Shaft’s comedy because of reasons like they are subverting something because they are self aware of the otaku culture or something like that but I don’t really buy it. Sure, they are self aware but they aren’t doing anything funny with it is what I always thought.
This thought is cemented in my mind after I watched Bakemonogatari with its frigging brutal references to otaku culture like tsundere and shit like that and drag it for like 7 minutes per episode or something. I just want to watch some story about spirit and blood gushing out but they keep wasting their time with talks about loli and unfunny stuff that serves no purpose or anything. It will be good if they took a jab on it but no, it’s clear that Shinbo is a big moe and loli lovers so he just kinda exaggerate your usual otaku stuff by ten times while celebrating it.
Comedy is a subjective subject anyway so well.
Well, you certainly got something off your chest.
But so are the tropes that Shaft references. In fact, they are more integral now to anime than the shounen shows you just listed.
I don’t remember saying that.
Well, liking an anime for subverting tropes doesn’t necessarily mean I find it funny.
I didn’t actually enjoy Bakemonogatari, but let’s play devil’s advocate. Some people have seen stories about spirits and blood gushing a million times. Sometimes, Shaft comes off as fresh to them, whether or not Shinbo is taking a jab.
I actually didn’t find many anime references in SoreMachi. The picture you linked is just little Hotori; she bears a resemblance to Mayoi due to the pigtails but her backpack isn’t huge.
The references in Bakemonogatari were in the source material: Nisio Isin is such an otaku (or he knows the otaku culture very well).
And the OP is the best of this season, really.
You didn’t think I meant it was literally Hachikuji, did you?
The first couple of episodes fell flat for me, but I’ve enjoyed the last two because the math teacher has become more prominent, and I enjoy his interactions with Hotori. If you liked him, then it might be worth watching all the available episodes. (Don’t know if you did or not!) That’s pretty much the only part of the show I enjoy, though.
Yeah, dude’s okay. I thought he was pretty funny in the first episode too. I just think the other characters are boring and not worth sitting through.
The math teacher is awesome.
Meh. This is no better or worse than Arakawa or Bakemonogatari.. but at least it doesn’t feel like Shinbo is truly over-doing it this time. Maybe they’re reining him in for a change, and if that’s true then they deserve kudos. I didn’t think they had the balls to tell him to tone it down anymore. The guy’s hallmark is turning so-so anime into low-budget college animation experiments, except each of them feels like the same experiment to me.
The net result is that I don’t feel as put-off by the visuals or the characters this time (though lord knows they’re trying). It feels less like his usual “make their arms flail a lot and zoom in on their eyeballs” approach to directing, and more like they are trying to go with what little story the source material has to convey. I’m not feeling annoyed as usual with his work, so I’ll happily be just a little bored in return.
I’ve seen some student anime and I don’t really see the resemblance. Regardless, as you say… they’re already “so-so anime,” so what’s the harm in a little flair?
From my perspective, that’s the worst thing you can say about anything. At least bad generates a response; boring is a death knell.
If it’s either “watch it and be a bit bored” or “not watch it because it’s too annoying” then I’ll gladly take the former. If I’m constantly annoyed that means the show isn’t trying – it’s just pandering to one type of viewer. It’s just like if I was constantly bored. But when it’s inconsistent, then at least I know the show is trying a little bit, and then I don’t feel it deserves as much scorn.
As for flair, there’s obviously no harm in it. But if it’s excessive, to the point where a show is mostly flair, then it can be a problem. Especially when the flair is the same flair we’ve been seeing for 4+ years from Shinbo.
I know I’m being arrogant, but I just want him to do better, not do more. A lot of the techniques he uses are just more polished versions of student direction tricks, he just has world-class animators backing him up. I don’t like feeling like I’m watching “the Shinbo show, variant X” anymore. I want to see “the X show, directed by Shinbo”.
Well, first of all, that’s not a fair comparison (“bit bored” versus “too annoying”).
But anyway, most of Shinbo’s anime are based on manga with flimsy narratives. I simply do not see how animating them “straight” would have been a major improvement. I feel as if Bakemonogatari would have been just as dull without Shinbo’s involvement. In the few anime where there was a heftier plot, like Dance in the Vampire Bund, I thought he reined it in. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong; I never finished that series.
Conversely, I don’t see how his style has been “excessive.” Can you — and I’m honestly wondering — list a few examples where his gimmicks (and I admit they’re gimmicks but this by itself doesn’t get us anywhere) have detracted from his recent work?
Yes, his flair hasn’t changed in years, but unoriginality is endemic of anime in general so what does this mean? Every anime must be annoying then.
A Scorsese is distinctively Scorsese in execution. A Kubrick is distinctively Kubrick. Shinbo is definitely no Scorsese or Kubrick, but a director’s fingerprints all over his work isn’t necessarily a bad thing. A director should bring his or her vision to a movie, anime, whatever it is. Otherwise, we may as well scrap all adaptations and just read the source material.
You don’t like Shinbo’s style. That’s fair enough. To say that something reeks of him, however, isn’t a fair criticism in my mind, unless you dislike Scorsese and Kubrick too.
> that’s not a fair comparison (“bit bored” versus “too annoying”).
No argument from me. I wasn’t claiming it was fair, I was just pointing out why I felt that way.
> Can you list a few examples where his gimmicks have detracted from his recent work?
I can, but it’s probably not going to help because it’s colored by my own expectations. I think it’s more fair to say that the works he’s stuck with aren’t easy to adapt without relying on gimmicks. Assuming that’s the case, I’m being unfair. And it’s not like I’m being original with my gripes, these are a laundry list of things that others feel remove any subtlety from his anime (even thought the source material isn’t subtle or great to begin with).
– He tends to overly emphasize uncomfortable sexual situations so he can have his clumsy male protagonist over-react. This was painful for me in Bakemonogatari. In Bund it felt like he was downplaying the interesting scenarios of the series in order to focus on the generic love-triangle (even replacing an apache marine antihero with a generic seductress antihero). This is a general anime problem, but Shinbo excels at it.
– His over-use of zany facial expressions and eye fetish frames are legendary. They are neat, and if he used them more sparingly and with more variety, I think he would be a master of the techniques. But seeing 70 of them in one episode of Arakawa completely killed the notion that there was supposed to be something more subtle going on underneath it all, in favor of beating an already-dead horse some more (sure it’s a gag anime, but still…)
– Bakemonogatari’s frustratingly excessive use of kanji and animation cues for “artistic appeal”. There was no real need to overload us with constant dialogue, even if that was the charm of the source material. Did Tatami Galaxy have to do that to keep us from being bored with it’s over-indulgent dialogue?
– His recent male protagonists all seem like the same characters to me, though this isn’t all his fault (just chance). But giving them the same voice actors, and not trying to sell me on the uniqueness of their personalities.. well that doesn’t help. Still, taking a chance on Chiaki makes up for the lack of diversity in his male voice actors a bit.
– His reliance on clumsy wooden models or voice-over exposition to cover up a scene that wasn’t animated. This seems to be most obvious in shows where I can’t believe it was necessary in the first place, like Natsu no Arashi. It’s possible they’re just him copying something from the manga, or trying to “be funny”, but that’s kinda risky and self-indulgent when the anime is already cheap-looking and has almost no action scenes to begin with.
Anyway, I hate ranting about such things. And I’m sure no one wants to read yet another jerks opinions on Shinbo. Suffice to say that I WANT to see him overcome these cliches, because they’re feeling less like general anime cliches and more like his own lately. He does enough anime that he might actually be able to steer the medium a little if he wants to.
> Yes, his flair hasn’t changed in years, but unoriginality is endemic of anime in general so what does this mean? Every anime must be annoying then.
Yep. You’re right, that’s how I feel for the most part. And I certainly don’t pick on Shinbo alone for it.. I just got caught up in the moment this time.
> unless you dislike Scorsese and Kubrick for the same reasoning
And I generally do (yeah, I’m the odd one in my circle of movie-lovers). It’s one thing for a director to put their personal touches on another’s work, or deliver a vastly different interpretation. Or to create their own original work.
And yes, I’m probably unfair to Shinbo in this case. But anime isn’t exactly the same medium as Hollywood movies are. It’s a cheaper medium to begin with, in terms of production values and viewer expectations.
But I’m mostly more forgiving when a director goes from pure words to a movie than a manga/graphic novel to a movie. It’s also usually more of a distillation of the source material than a page-for-page translation, so it’s more likely that the director put some ass into it, rather than changing a few scenes to make them more sexually-charged or slap-sticky.
Wow, I should get some cheese to go with my whine. Hopefully this doesn’t read as pure and pointless arrogance. I’d better get some sleep before I start to buy into my own ranting and raving :)
Well, I asked you for your opinions so it’s no big deal. There’s more here than I really have the spirit to address. Like I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I’m not a Shinbo fan; some of his series work for me and some don’t. I won’t muster a defense of, say, Bakemonogatari when I didn’t love it in the first place. All I can say is that Shinbo’s style doesn’t bother me; sometimes, they even keep me awake (though I never praise it). Clearly, others feel much more strongly about him than I do. This isn’t directed at you, but I just think people too easily resort to critiques like “pretentious,” especially with Shinbo. To say that he or his anime’s pretentious is such a loaded statement. Not only are we making a subjective judgment of his own intentions, but also on how his anime reflect other “un-pretentious” anime.