Fate Something or Other Ep. 16: A possessive Shirou

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It’s one of those episodes. It’s one of those episodes where people just stand around and talk. And the best part is how smug people will get if you complain about it. Ohmygod, god forbid people have deep and interesting discussions in our animus, right?! Yeah, sure. Bring on the deep and interesting discussions. Well…? I’m waiting… yep, still waiting.

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Of course, I didn’t think Gilgamesh and our heroes were going to fight or anything. It’s not time for that yet. It never seems to be time for any sort of thrilling excitement or palpable tension, but… let’s move on. Shinji briefly tries to recruit Rin to his side, but he’s even more one-dimensional than Caster and the dead loli on the ground so…

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Wow, is she really dead already? If she actually stays dead, she pretty much contributed nothing to this series. This series. I don’t care about her rich backstory. As far as Fate Something or Other is concerned, she came, she saw, she disappeared for months, then she bit the dust. Whoo.

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Now here comes the great big discussion… y’see, Shirou just keeps trying to be a hero and shit. Like what the fuck is up with that!

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Just look at the guy’s face. It’s like the story wants to convince us that his need to help others is borderline obsessive.

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Preach it, Galt. Show these anime do-gooders a thing or two!

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But honestly, I can’t muster a damn. Why? Because altruism just isn’t some bizarre concept. If anything, people like Rin and Archer are the weirdos. Helping others is just instinctive. Even rats will stop pressing a lever for food when they realize that pressing that same lever will hurt other rats. Even human babies feel the need to help and share with other babies, and their brains are hardly developed enough to form complex thoughts such as, “I’m only helping others because, ultimately, it benefits me, therefore altruism is just an illusion!” Yeah, ain’t no baby thinking that. If you ask me, selfishness seems to arise from complex thought. It’s instinctive to help others. Perhaps Shirou leaps headfirst into danger because he just feels it in his bones.

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On the other hand, it seems like you’d really have to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to justify not helping others.

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But this is, like, a character study or something, so we need some great, meaningful event to “justify” Shirou’s heroism. Like he just can’t be heroic. He really needs this profound event in his childhood. During some big fire, I guess he ignored people who were in need.

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Now that he’s a sole survivor or some shit, he feels the burden to help as many people as you can. So he can feel the same emotion his foster father felt or something. Whatever. Spin it however you want.

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So what does it come down to? Shirou won’t know true happiness because he is always thinking of others? Hell, let’s grant that he — like many of us — are hardwired to be altruistic. So you’re nothing more than a machine. That’s Rin’s own words, by the way. She argues that Shirou’s just being a machine. So what’s the trade-off? You only have humanity if you can rationalize selfishness? You’re only an individualism if you care about your happiness above all else? Is that really worth it? Is that really having humanity?

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What is true happiness anyway? Who can honestly be happy knowing that others died when we could have done something about it? You can’t tell me the first responders would be happier just doing nothing. I mean, it’s just ludicrous. Are we honestly having this discussion? Sure, this shit isn’t black and white. I’m certainly not going to suddenly give up all my possessions just so I can donate whatever meager fortunes I have in order to save some random strangers on the other side of the planet. But just because I don’t feel the great moral compulsion to do such a thing — and these are arguably supererogatory acts anyway — it doesn’t follow that I would also ignore someone right in front of me. And that’s why this scene — fulls of tears and exasperation! — doesn’t move me. Of course Shirou helped the loli. She was right there!

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But right, right… Shirou’s ideals are supposed to betray him, thereby turning him into Archer. Uh-huh. ‘Cause cynicism is really idealism’s fault. Oh well.

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Anyway, that’s enough of that. Let’s now talk about how strong Gilgamesh is–… haha, no, let’s not.

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Afterwards, Lancer pops his head back into the story. Like a lot of the characters in this rich tapestry of a narrative, Lancer’s presence in the past few weeks — or months — has been about as significant as a fart. But here he is! So love him!

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And all of a sudden, Shirou’s all like, “You can help us all you want, but don’t you even think of being Rin’s friend!”

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I mean, he can’t honestly think Rin would go for some random Servant, does he? So logically, he shouldn’t even threatened by that. By process of elimination, dude is literally making sure that other dudes don’t befriend Rin. Now that’s weird.

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But oh my god, the tsuntsun girl is just melting into a puddle of weird faces, and there’s nothing she can do about it. We’ve taken this headstrong girl, and found her true weakness and it’s anything that has to do with the matters of the — dokidokiko — kororo — dokidoki — ZOMGTHISISSODELICIOUS. Yeah okay.

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Elsewhere, Archer and punching dude — I’m sure at one point I still remembered his name — talk about stuff. Motivations and stuff. Aims and stuff. Like, if I could just pay attention, the story would blow me away with its nuances and subtlety, but because I’m literally falling asleep right  now, it’s just my loss. Whoops. At least they’re not walking in circles?

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Then our heroes and Lancer talk about stuff. Gotta discuss what’s about to happen. Gotta make sure we know what our plan is. These are very deep plans, such as… Lancer might have to fight three people. And can Rin and Shirou really overcome Caster? STAY TUNED

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Then they talk about more stuff with Archer. He hasn’t talked to them in a while. We should see them talk. About how feisty Rin is.

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They have their weapons drawn, but we’re not ready to fight yet!

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O-…oh! They’re going to fight–

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lol nah let’s talk about that pendant MEANINGFUL MOMENT YO

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THEN FLYING SPERM CELLS TO SIGNIFY THE END OF THE EPISODE THE END

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34 thoughts on “Fate Something or Other Ep. 16: A possessive Shirou

  1. Ckarasu

    I’m no huge fan of the Fate series, but I’m not seeing where you’re coming from here in regards to Rin’s rant. Isn’t Shirou’s obsessive need to help everyone actually kinda bad? I mean, it’s fine to be altruistic, but the end result of extreme altruism isn’t good. Something really bad happens to everyone around you and people blame you for it would cause a huge shock. Or being put into a situation where only you have the ability to save lives, at the expense of others. If you’re only ever wanting to help others, then you can’t easily make a decision like that. You have to cause one to suffer to save many, and that’s completely against the mindset of someone like Shirou. It’s not that cynicism is the default conclusion of altruism. It’s that you must be realistic in how altruistic you are, as going “all in” on such an ideal can be disastrous. You have to at least be a little selfish. Rin’s rant kind of makes sense, as he is being like a machine in that he’s being driven by purpose only. He’s gotten along fine so far, but eventually he’d be put into a situation that tests that purpose. You never put your eggs all in one basket, as they say, and Shirou is doing just that in a sense. He needs to be a little selfish in order to understand how his altruism will effect him, as a person, when trying to help people.

    I understand your dislike of the series, so don’t get me wrong on that end. I am not a fan of the exposition and the fact that a character like Gilgamesh even exists(it’s stated the he could just stomp on everyone and win if he wasn’t so egotistical). You don’t write in a character that has all the power Gil has, put him as a villain, and then never have him use it to its full power. It’s dumb, and defeats the purpose in having that power in the first place if you’re just going to have them jobber off because “they weren’t worth my full power”. It’s boring. The dumber thing is that his behavior is explained in other material as him just being “upset” at the state of the world, and that he’s otherwise totally a hero. I don’t have anything against Rin as a character, though. She’s a tsundere, sure, but she was written in a time where these tropes weren’t quite as played out. It’s kinda generic, but it’s not a good or bad thing to me.

    Reply
    1. sonicsenryaku

      Yea i agree; i was under the impression that Rin was upset with Shirou because he doesnt find any worth in himself beyond helping others…and that is bad; at least in my opinion. Altruism is nice and everything but one must also care for themselves. i dont think rin was arguing that altruism is bad or that it’s weird to be altruistic…just the way shirou perceives his worth. But yes even too much altruism can be unhealthy.

      Reply
      1. E Minor Post author

        Altruism is nice and everything but one must also care for themselves.

        Who’s saying otherwise? He’s not becoming a hobo to save African kids. He’s not becoming Robin Hood to save the poor. Literally all he’s doing is helping someone in immediate need, which is what most people would do.

        Reply
    2. Naota

      I think Shirou’s problem goes a bit beyond simply going “all in” on his altruistic tendencies – the central flaw is that he chases his impossible ideal out of a sense of guilt or obligation without having really come to his own conclusions. He saves people because he thinks he has to, rather than because it’s something he wants… but it’s a strange character arc because I don’t think we ever see him pay a serious personal cost for it.

      Everyone is always lecturing Shirou to think of himself and find his own ideals (whatever this means), but no example is ever given as to what this looks like, why his current method is wrong, or what the difference is between saving people for yourself versus purely for ideals. At the end of the day, despite all the hand-wringing and crazy eyes, I can’t think of any scenario in which any good-hearted heroic protagonist wouldn’t have done what Shirou does.

      Reply
      1. Ckarasu

        A cost doesn’t need to be paid, should they wise up fast enough. Archer was the lesson Shirou needed to learn from, if I recall.

        And I did say that his chasing of the ideal was a factor. He was all purpose. While there was logic to it, it was completely self sacrificial. The thing is that he isn’t in a setting where that idealism flies, and Archer makes it clear that the self sacrifice is too much for someone like Shirou to take. The difference between Shirou and most other heroes is that they tend to understand the implications of their actions or have resolved themselves to the consequences should a hard situation arises. The ones that don’t have the ability to learn form their mistakes, as well as the power to put those lessons to use. Many can deal with the abstract scenarios where no solution is ideal, but one is merely not as bad as the others. I think the point was that Shirou wasn’t ready for that.

        Reply
      2. E Minor Post author

        He saves people because he thinks he has to, rather than because it’s something he wants…

        And what’s wrong with that? That’s arguably the only time it is moral. The shopkeeper who doesn’t rip off a child because it’s the right thing to do, not because he doesn’t want to.

        Reply
    3. E Minor Post author

      You never put your eggs all in one basket, as they say, and Shirou is doing just that in a sense. He needs to be a little selfish in order to understand how his altruism will effect him, as a person, when trying to help people.

      And I don’t see this. If he was going all in, he would actually go all in and help EVERYONE that is suffering. He’s only helping people who are in immediate danger in front of him. Who wouldn’t try to save a child who’s about to be run over by a car? Who wouldn’t run into a burning building to save someone who can’t help themselves? You have a point about extreme altruism if we’re talking about someone suddenly going to extremes just to save random starving villagers in some far off place, but trying to save loli girl from being killed is not extreme altruism when it happens right before your very eyes. I work with what I’ve been given. If the guy literally abandons his wife and children to save people he’s never met, maybe Rin would have a point. But Rin yelling at him for trying to help loli girl means nothing to me. He’s arguably foolish for rushing in without a plan, but who honestly has a plan when a building is burning?

      Reply
      1. Ckarasu

        Sure, but it’s clear that such an attitude isn’t appropriate in this setting(proven by Archer). Gilgamesh was far beyond them at that point, and there’s nothing they could have done to stop him. Shirou was determined to help, but Rin saw that as suicidal. It’s great that he wanted to save her, but there was no way for him to actually succeed and he needs to realize that he can’t win them all. There’s also the fact that the setting seems to take a dump on pure altruism.

        There are a bunch of problems with the series, but Rin’s rant certainly doesn’t seem like one to me.

        Reply
        1. E Minor Post author

          That’s the thing! Few people have the luxury to think during these situations. If you see someone in immediate need, you hardly have the time to stand there and weigh the costs and benefits. It would seem rather cold to me if you could. In fact, how would Shirou have known that he couldn’t save the loli? Maybe he honestly thought he could have. And at that point, this is a case of a lack of information. A case of foolishness perhaps. But not a case against extreme altruism. To me, extreme altruism is something far more than this. This is leaping into a situation because of the immediacy of it. And I can’t blame someone for that. I can’t blame someone for thinking they can stop a car from killing a child.

        2. Ckarasu

          Extreme altruism is total selflessness. You hold no value in regards to the self, and instead do everything to help others. One might argue that it requires one to view the self as completely negative. Rin was there to hold him back, but the immediacy isn’t applicable to everyone. Perhaps he simply didn’t care about his own life, which is personality thus far seems to imply. I don’t see it in a “cost and benefit” kind of way, but a “can it be done” kind of way. It is a quick question to ask one’s self, though that depends on one’s own ability to read the situation. It was clear from the surroundings that Shirou was outmatched. Rin saved his life. And hey, maybe she saw it this way and was ranting about her perception of Shirou’s character(while being right, in the end). People aren’t perfect, and a character should allowed to be angry. Archer is against her, that much is clear. Rin’s only shot at this is using Saber through Shirou, so she can’t let him die.

        3. E Minor Post author

          It is a quick question to ask one’s self, though that depends on one’s own ability to read the situation. It was clear from the surroundings that Shirou was outmatched

          Clear from your perspective. Clear from Rin’s perspective. Not clear from Shirou’s perspective that there’s nothing that he couldn’t have done. Therefore, he went in. That potentially means he’s not as wise as Rin, but nothing more than that.

        4. Ckarasu

          And Rin was there around the same time Shirou was. Perhaps she thought he was foolish. Perhaps he wasn’t thinking when he could certainly have actually had a moment of analysis. Regardless of motivation, it was a justified rant. He needed to start thinking a bit more before acting. I know it’s for the right reasons, but nothing is gained if you die as well. It’s up for interpretation, I suppose, but I take Rin’s side.

  2. ironherc

    I might had found Gilgamesh a bit more interesting during Fate Zero as he expressed himself much more uniquely to the typical egomaniac villain (some stuff he says might sound over the top but it’s done so well you can’t avoid admiring how much he believes himself as a god). You get to understand why his ego is so damn big as well as him showing other sides of his personality like his sense of chivalry towards rival kings who have proven themselves. But I agree that I hate the idea of Gilgamesh been so damn overpowered in his own universe (he’s not invincible, can easily call more than 10 characters who can easily stomp him). Never can I get out of a discussion of hardcore fans discussing any of his battles which he ends up losing with the typical “he wasn’t taking it seriously”, “if he went full out he would easily win”, “he can beat anyone if he put some effort”, etc.
    Take for example Jojo’s bizarre adventure, it has some extremely powerful characters with broken abilities that can’t be beaten by normal means, yet they all have their weaknesses and a flaw or two which can be exploited. But here, Gilgamesh admits Berserker could had beaten him, yet easily beats him without even wearing his damn armor. Ego alone as a weakness is a big no in my opnion.

    Lets give Rin some credit here, she might have some tsundere tendencies but I’m 100% sure she is nowhere near in the level as the thousands of terrible characters from modern harems. And don’t make me name some because reminding me of them would just hurt.

    I have nothing more to add what Ckarasu already said about Shirou’s obsessive nature, only that his attempts to save everyone could also easily put more people in danger (including himself) in his current state, he really doesn’t have the power to do what he wants to do, he has no servant, his magic levels are crap and can barely project weapons. Yes, it’s great that he wants to help people but ignores his limits, it’s a danger to himself.

    Reply
    1. E Minor Post author

      only that his attempts to save everyone could also easily put more people in danger (including himself) in his current state,

      We’re going far beyond our scope. He’s getting yelled at because he tried to save the loli. Yes, he endangered himself, but so would an adult if he or she tries to save a kid from being run over. Yet would you argue that an old man shouldn’t put himself in danger to save a child? That the old man should know his limits? As for getting others into danger, I’m not seeing it. When Shirou does something that can cost Rin her life, her anger will be justified, but it has yet to occur in this series. She did not have to reveal herself to Gilgamesh.

      Reply
      1. Ckarasu

        Gilgamesh is not a car, a fire, a sickness or anything like that. You can put yourself between the kid and the car, push them away, or somehow catch the driver’s attention and have them swerve out of the way. Gilgamesh was there for the heart, and Shirou and Rin were not equipped to deal with him at the moment. Only really powerful humans can fight a servant, and as far as I recall Shirou was not at that level yet.

        Reply
        1. E Minor Post author

          And maybe in Shirou’s heart, he honestly believed he could have done something. Maybe improvise and distract the guy. Maybe bank on the idea that he could blindside Gilgamesh. Clearly, he was wrong. But he’s not failing because he’s too altruistic, and that’s the crux of the issue here. He’s failing just like an old man would fail if he tried to save a kid from a car. But how can one blame the moral impulse to do what is right when such immediacy exists right before one’s very eyes? Again, I’m not saying you don’t have a point… if Shirou was hurting his family to save people he can’t even see or ever talk to. But as far as what I’ve been presented in the narrative, Rin’s rant is unjustified in my eyes. Yes, if we all had the time to assess the situation, we would clearly see that he can’t do a thing against Gilgamesh. But that ignores the immediacy of the situation.

        2. Ckarasu

          I see your point, but Rin was there to add a dash of realism. She knows that servants are much stronger than humans. Berserker was just felled by Gilgamesh, and he was no worse for wear. This same servant was too much for Shirou. Shirou just didn’t place enough value on his own life to realize that. He was only concerned with saving Illya. Shirou’s idea of saving someone runs along the line of “I don’t care if I die so long as I save them”, and that is what Rin really doesn’t like. He places their lives before his own, and that doesn’t work. It’s justified, I feel. But interpretations vary, I suppose.

        3. E Minor Post author

          First, the way I see it, Shirou just failed to save someone, and now he’s getting yelled at. Yes, Gilgamesh is no car, but suppose you failed to save a kid from being run over. How would you feel if you were immediately lectured just shortly after your failure? It’s insensitive and ridiculous.

          He places their lives before his own, and that doesn’t work.

          Lots of people do this to great effect. So the problem isn’t that you can’t sacrifice yourselves for others. The problem is that you shouldn’t sacrifice yourself if you don’t even know if you can succeed. But I honestly believe Shirou thought he could succeed. So again, that’s not a case against altruism. That’s just the matter if Shirou being a newbie at this heroism thing (and obviously, he is).

        4. Ckarasu

          I would have felt angry if it was the car, but “just” bad if it was Gilgamesh. It’s not a matter of being outclassed by the car. You just were not able to intervene in time. Gilgamesh is a person. It is simply a matter of being outclassed. There was no hope there, and it was clear in retrospect. I would not have faulted Rin.

  3. IonCaron (@IonCaron)

    “But oh my god, the tsuntsun girl is just melting into a puddle of weird faces”
    HAHAhaha! That’s exactly what I was thinking at this moment. Damn this art style is hideous in motion! It’s really distracting.

    That said, what you brought up regarding Tohsaka’s retarding self-centered ideology vs Shirou’s altruism is very interesting. It’s obvious, yes, but interesting in that it’s a return to what Kotomine (circle-walking priest) remarked about Shirou’s motivation:

    “Your wish to save people is selfish, since in order to save people they must first be in danger, and so your desire is ultimately for people to be placed in danger just for you to save them.”

    Nonsense. If his desire was specific, like, “I wish I could be the hero by saving [insert here] from being killed!” then yes that incorporates a desire for their danger. However, his wish is to save people. You know, from the crap that’s already happening to them/will happen to them. He doesn’t want them to be in danger but to rescue them from the danger they are already in.

    Considering Shirou’s backstory and his very simple motivation, it seems Nasu, the author, wanted to explore the sometimes selfish or misguided nature of a totally altruistic mentality. There’s ways to do this, especially with Shirou’s backstory. It’s a glimpse into the root cause of his desire to save others, but drops the ball because of Shirou’s characterization and what it conveys. It SHOULD show us that beneath his idealistic nature is a selfish desire to free himself from his deep-seated self-loathing brought on by his vicious trauma. His desire to save others is in reality a desire to save himself. But that’s not right for two reasons:

    1. Shirou should have PTSD. No, not Hollywood “OH GOD THE VISIONS” PTSD (though flashbacks are very real in severe cases), but other symptoms of PTSD. Survivor’s Guilt is there but it’s so limp and hidden that it might as well not be. Shirou is just a generic anime boy when he should be much more introverted and shy from his experience. He should be more like…well, for an anime comparison, like Evangelion’s Shinji (before the writing went to shit). Shinji was also able to connect with people but only after they connected with him, and even then he was rather “off” personality-wise.
    ___A constant feeling of anxiety, the inability to empathize properly, clinical depression– Hell! Shirou was just a kid walking through a flaming village of fiery innocents screaming for his help as their flesh melted from their faces! Why the fuck is Shirou normal after experiencing something like that?!

    2. Shirou genuinely cares about others. There’s nothing selfish about his desire to save others because he feels rage when innocents are hurt, feels sorrow when something bad happens to someone else. Shirou has a blunt sincerity about his emotions and that alone ruins the concept of his desire to save others as being “selfish”.

    3. Shirou has yet to face the consequence of losing something, or someone, by trying to save everyone. No matter how you cup your hands there will always be those that slip through the cracks. But had this happened? Has he had to face this scenario? NOPE. He did lose Saber but that was only because of a dumb choice he made at the last second, not because he thought he could save everyone.
    ___This is key to note since it’s not even a matter of “No one can ever save ‘everyone'” but rather the concepts of “trying to save everyone often ends up with saving no one” and “trying to be everyone’s savior will run you into the ground”. But neither has happen! Shirou’s efforts to save everyone hasn’t left him exhausted and battered to the point of nearly dying nor have they resulted in losing more than he’d ever expect. Again, Rin is still with him. Sakura and Taiga are fine, as I recall. Saber is the only loss he’s endured and that was, again, due to stupidity not idealism.
    ___You could argue that the loli’s death would fit into the “can’t save everyone” category, but then THAT is what this episode should have been about. Shirou should have been in pieces over it and Rin should have been telling him that it’s unrealistic to try to save everyone. Sometimes death happens and though we think we can save them, we just can’t. Shirou should have been blind to this Real Life 101 lesson in reality due to his trauma and Rin should have been the one to open his eyes to it, maybe tearing away the childlike optimism that would eventualy lead him to his doom if he didn’t grow up.

    But we couldn’t have that since that would require Shirou having an actual fucking character instead of pieces of a personality stitched together with anime-protag banality. Instead what we get is Rin being a stupid ass by telling the only character in the show with any conviction to his moral fiber that he should be more self-centered (of course, since she saved his life, this makes her a schizophrenic hypocrite, like more tsundere).

    Crap, I think I might have expounded a bit too much. I don’t know. Screw it. It’s 3am and I have work in six hours. Point is, I not only agree with you on how retarding this scene is to both characters and the story but also that there’s a grossly wasted potential here. Nasu must have gotten a hell of a lot better since because Fate/EXTRA (as tedious a mind-breaking grind it is to play) is far better written and coherent in its themes. This however is not.

    Reply
  4. ao

    In the visual novel you have a choice on whether to try and save the loli when Gilgameshi appears or not. If you do not, Lancer is not impressed with you and doesn’t reveal himself or help you. If you do everything you saw in the anime happens.

    @IonCanon In the 3rd arc, Heaven’s Feel Arc he realizes he can’t save everyone. It’s also the arc where the loli plays a slightly bigger role. (She was never fully developed though, because the 4th arc that was meant to follow her was never made.)

    Reply
  5. djdatemasamune

    In all fairness to both Archer & Rin, they both have reasons for being so cold-hearted. Rin always had a selfish streak b/c she basically trained herself to never get too close to anyone b/c they may/will wind up being an enemy later on (such is the fate of those participating in the Holy Grail Wars), so there’s no point in getting close to anyone. Also, that it’s less potential emotional pain if you don’t get too close to anyone & basically treat everyone as acquaintances at best & more or less avoid ppl., almost like her own way of protecting others. If she doesn’t get too involved w/ ppl., she doesn’t run the risk of needlessly involving them in the Holy Grail Wars & potentially getting them killed. I believe her other mind-set is that caring too much for others would cause one’s self to make unnecessarily risky decisions that may cost you your own life, which Shirou is prone to do >.>

    In the case of Archer, assuming most/all are familiar w/ his *true* heroic identity, he basically is a “knight in sour armor” (using TVTropes terms) that’s basically bitter about experiences he’s had in life & how much he’s sacrificed in the past “caring for others”, which is why he also tends to be more “selfish” & less caring, but he still tries to help ppl. (it’s just he really dislikes SHirou &, quite frankly, that’s not the point/his goal in this route). Also, like others have stated, when it comes to Shirou, he can be *too* caring & basically sacrifice too much of himself to help someone else, but I don’t really believe they show that too much in this episode, so I’m not going to go into it.

    Personally, I love the Fate series & the Fate portion of the Type Moon multiverse in general, but it’s not perfect by any means (like all anime). I just don’t understand *why* this anime exists. There was already a movie, why do you need another anime series on top of that? Why not just make the Heaven’s Feel arc into an anime? So many unanswered questions ~.~

    Reply
    1. flamerounin

      I just don’t understand *why* this anime exists. There was already a movie, why do you need another anime series on top of that? Why not just make the Heaven’s Feel arc into an anime? So many unanswered questions ~.~

      I also love the Fate series, but that’s also my question: Why does this one even exist? Especially whenever the diehards pester me with the “Oh, you will get more of this or that unexplored story thread in Heaven’s Feel.” I mean, come on, if that’s the case, why are we even watching this one if HF is where all the good narrative stuff is supposed to be?

      With regards to that whole question of altruism on Shirou’s part, I am really disappointed that this series never even made use of Shirou’s connection to Kiritsugu, considering that it was one of Kiri’s moral dilemmas in Fate Zero (In fact, I am disappointed that none of Shirou’s, Rin’s and Ilya’s backstories from F?Z are used in this series), which could have also been an influence to Shirou’s own mindset. But then again, the diehards would probably insist “Ah but you will see more of that in Heaven’s Feel” -_-‘

      Reply
      1. djdatemasamune

        Well, yeah, they do explore Shirou’s & Kiritsugu’s connection more in HF, but again, why not make that into an anime? What’s up w/ the obsession w/ UBW? It’s awesome but it already has a movie ~.~ Hell, I wouldn’t even mind an alternate timeline Fate anime/OVA series where Kiritsugu & Archer SHIROU get to meet each other >.>

        Reply
  6. djdatemasamune

    Also, although I love Gilgamesh, ditto to his character making no sense. He’s the closest you can get to having a God as a servant, but yet he’s mostly useless b/c his ego often leads him to do nothing since it’s “beneath him”. Additionally, every time he loses, it’s not even b/c he lost to the other person, so much as he lost to his own super inflated ego. Like, most battles, if he started off using Ea & his chains, or used them when he weakened his opponent enough, he could have easily won, which would practically be every fight (like someone else stated). Instead, we’re treated to a character that’s basically useless & inactive for most of the series X/

    Reply
  7. Densetsu

    I really don’t see the point why people even bother arguing here with someone who’s sole objective is to rant and endlessly complain about every single detail he can find. The times he has anything positive to mention are few and far between. It’s pretty much the same thing for any anime he blogs about. But then I guess that must be the entertainment value of this website, right? You do attract a certain audience with this stuff.

    Reply
    1. The Real Sugoi Sugoi

      What else do you expect from a critic or reviewer? That they be sycophants? That they be fanboys/fangirls?

      If you want sheep-like unadulterated praise and worship of this show, there are plenty of blogs and sites that do that, like My Anime List or 4chan’s /a/ board.

      If you want a sober analysis of how shitty this show is, then right here is the right place.

      Reply
  8. Pingback: Fate/Stay Night – ep 18 – Um não-episódio « anime21

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